Thursday, February 3, 2011

Liberal Progessives

I was watching Youtube today, and one guy said he was a Liberal Progressive.

Liberal progressive.  Isn't that an oxymoron?  Both the words Liberal and Progressive are at odds with each other if you use the true definition of Liberal.  Meaning, anyone who fights for personal freedom.  I.e. a Libertarian.

A progressive in the present political definition is anyone who wants to run society using Political Darwinism.  I.e. Communism or Socialism.  Really, it's an oxymoron.



Libertarian, or Liberal, defined.

So if you go around advertising that you are a Liberal Progressive, you are stating that you are a moderate on politics. Isn't that interesting. As for me, it's getting so you can't have it both ways. You are either liberal or you are progressive. Moderates are caught between the two and usually can't choose.

10 comments:

A Paladin In Citadel said...

Liberals and Libertarians are not the same. The US of A was founded by Liberals.

Some of the greatest American presidents, including Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, and Franklin Delano Roosevelt, have been described as Progressives.

Clovis Cithog said...

By modern standards, early democrats would be considered right wing. Recall it was the Republican congress that freed the slaves and passed the anti-discriminations laws of the 1960s.

"The best way to grow the economy is to balance the budget and cut taxes."
JFK - the Kennedy - Nixon debates, 1960

It was Woodrow Wilson who passed the 17th amendment (allowing the direct election of senators) that laid the seeds of the death of the American republic granting the political parties
(neither of which is my friend)
greater power than the legislatures of the states. With Wilson, America began the slow slide into mob rule.

History is so inconvenient to policitical idealogues.

Atom Kid said...

If only Milton Friedman had run for president. I do find the two terms to be at odds with each other, what is progressive today is the facism of the early to mid 20th century.

As for Wilson, he's actually considered to be the worst president of all times. He created the Federal Reserve, and after doing so he remarked :

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country.
A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit.
Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation,
therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men.
We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely
controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world.
No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by
conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by
the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

Not to mention my favorite Wilson quote:

"I cannot imagine power as a thing negative and not positive."

Plus he tried to shut down newspapers, forced the U.S. into WWI which was winding down, created the first propaganda department (Committee on Public Information), sedition act which prevented criticism of the government in times of war. He was the closest thing to a fascist president that the U.S. has ever seen.

A Paladin In Citadel said...

Wilson is ranked the 7th best president in US history. Liberals ranked him 6th; Conservatives ranked him 8th. And that by notable historians and political scientists.

Progressive Presidents have pulled America's *** out of the fire on several occasions.

A Paladin In Citadel said...

Clovis Cithog said...

It was Woodrow Wilson who passed the 17th amendment (allowing the direct election of senators) that laid the seeds of the death of the American republic granting the political parties...

Not according to Wikipedia. The 17th Amendment was approved by the individual State Legislatures themselves, and was passed by the Senate and House months prior to Wilson taking office as President.

And as for the creation of the federal reserve, every G20 nation has a central bank, controlled by the Federal government.

You guys are just being silly. You havn't bought all that Tea Party hookum have you?

A Paladin In Citadel said...

Dear God, you HAVE drunk the Tea Party koolaid...

Atom Kid said...

As for Wilson, he's actually considered to be the worst president of all times. He created the Federal Reserve, and after doing so he remarked :

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country..."


Again, according to Wikipedia, there is NO source on that "supposed" speech by Wilson.

Go to http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Woodrow_Wilson

C'mon guys, some dumb Canadian shouldn't have to correct the record on American history. Stop running down one of your great American Presidents.

A Paladin In Citadel said...

Go to the bottom of the Woodrow Wilson quotes section, it talks about the misattribution of this quote

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson

Clovis Cithog said...

@ Paladin
@ Atom Kid

I don’t belong to any ‘party,’
I am a libertine.

The 17th Amendment was proposed in May 2012.
Wilson was a member of the ‘progressive’ movement of his time. He was elected president in Nov 1912.
The 17th amendment was ratified in April 2013 during Wilson’s presidency.

Did he facilitate OR
did Wilson ignore
a national movement that carried the United States away from being a republic towards democracy?

Democracy is not a constitutional republic;
“Democracy is like a streetcar, you ride it until you get to your destination, then you get off.”

Bonus points if you know the source of the above quote ; - )

A Paladin In Citadel said...

I hate to quote Wikipedia whole cloth, but... see below. Wilson had negligible influence on reforming the US Senate to direct election. Wilson's presidency was merely coincidental: if I read the Wikipedia article correctly, he was obliged to ratify the 17th amendment, because 2/3 of the State legislatures had already demanded it. The individual States themselves demanded the reform of the Senate, not Wilson.


"Reform efforts began as early as 1826, when direct election was first proposed. In the 1870s, citizens petitioned the House of Representatives for direct election. From 1893 to 1902, support for direct election increased considerably. Each year during that period, a constitutional amendment for direct election was proposed in Congress, but the Senate rejected it. In the mid-1890s, the Populist Party put direct election of Senators in its platform, but neither the Democrats nor the Republicans paid much notice at the time.

Direct election was also part of the Wisconsin Idea championed by Republican Senators Robert M. La Follette, Sr., a progressive, and George W. Norris, a reformer. In the early 1900s, Oregon pioneered direct election of Senators. Oregon tried various procedures until success in 1907, and was soon followed by Nebraska.

Popular support of Senatorial election reform grew rapidly at this time. In 1905, William Randolph Hearst acquired Cosmopolitan (then a general-interest magazine), and made it an advocate of direct election. In 1906, Cosmopolitan published "The Treason of the Senate", a series of scathing articles by "Muckraking" reporter David Graham Phillips, which described Senators as corrupt pawns of industrialists and financiers. A prime example was Senator William A. Clark of Montana.

Increasingly, Senators were elected based on state referenda, similar to the means developed by Oregon. By 1912, as many as 29 states elected Senators either as nominees of party primaries, or in conjunction with a general election. These de facto directly elected Senators supported legislation to promote direct election, but to make direct election general, a constitutional amendment was required.

The Senate had consistently rejected the proposed amendment, and so direct election advocates acted through the states. Amendments to the Constitution are normally proposed by Congress, a two-thirds vote of both Houses being required. However, under Article V, two-thirds of the states may apply for the creation of a convention to propose amendments and the Congress must then create one.

By 1910, almost two-thirds of the states had called for such a convention, which put pressure on the Congress to propose the amendment and eliminate the need for the convention."


For edification purposes, i'd be interested to hear how you would complete the following sentence:

"I wish the USA was more like __________ (name of country) because they have more liberty, lower taxes, and a better system of governance."

Incidentally, the Canadian Senate is still based on appointment, rather than election. It is filled with political cronies and party bag-men, and is a scandal-ridden institution where many of the Senators hardly or never show up to work but collect their $100,000 annual paycheques until the day they die.

A Paladin In Citadel said...

CLOVIS, I WANT TO HANG OUT WITH YOU! Here's how "freedictionary.com" defines libertines. :)

Noun 1. libertine - a dissolute person; usually a man who is morally unrestrained
debauchee, rounder
adulterer, fornicator - someone who commits adultery or fornication
bad person - a person who does harm to others
gigolo - a man who has sex with and is supported by a woman
profligate, rake, rakehell, rip, roue, blood - a dissolute man in fashionable society
ladies' man, lady killer, seducer - a man who takes advantage of women
swinger, tramp - a person who engages freely in promiscuous sex
debaucher, ravisher, violator - someone who assaults others sexually
philanderer, womaniser, womanizer - a man who likes many women and has short sexual relationships with them

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